Dec 1, 2014 485 comments

All Wheel Drive Does Not Make You Safer

Every year right around this time, millions of consumers are tricked into a massive financial and lifestyle mistake as the natural incompatibility of snowy roads and safe driving take them by surprise.

“I know Mr. Money Mustache insists that I drive only efficient cars, but that’s because he lives in the dreamy semi-desert of Colorado where it never snows. Where I live, the roads are ice-packed for the entire winter, and you’re doomed if you don’t have All Wheel Drive. Therefore, I will buy a enormous four-wheel drive truck for the safety of my family. Or at least a Subaru.”

This is just plain wrong, and as a recovering gearhead, I need to make a public statement on it.

Just like any other great marketing-fueled deception, automakers have captured both our irrational fear of loss and desire for status, and channeled them into a product line that just happens to be more profitable for them. And it’s shocking how well it has worked, as even some of my most esteemed readers have been writing in to ask for advice on “which AWD vehicles are Mustachian?”

The answer is “Whichever one the Forestry service or the Military issues to you when you show up for duty in an area without roads*.”

Because for the rest of us, it’s Hip and Knee Drive for your shoes, Chain Powered Rear Drive for the bike, and Front Wheel Drive for those rare occasions you need to use a car.

The reason I can state so confidently that the AWD hype is pure marketing bullshit is simple physics. Although this was one of my favorite subjects in engineering school, you don’t need a degree to understand it fully and cure your desire for AWD.

Car safety depends at the core on two things: not crashing into anything, and not letting anything crash into you. To accomplish those goals, the ability to steer your car in the direction of your choice is the top factor, with braking coming as a close second. A certain amount of acceleration is important as well, but not nearly as critical as the first two: note the extremely low collision rate of transport trucks and city buses per mile traveled.

Every car, truck, and SUV has four wheels. And every one of them has front-wheel-steering and all-wheel braking. So we’re all on a level playing field so far. The place where the safety in accident-avoidance starts to diverge is:

How firmly the car sticks to the road (more grip means more safety)
How effectively the car lets you change direction or speed (cars with a lower center of gravity and stiffer suspension are safer)
How the power and braking affect vehicle dynamics (applying power to the rear wheels while cornering tends to break the grip and cause you to fishtail and spin out – this is why rear-drive-only vehicles like sports cars and pickups are more dangerous in snow, but front-drive works well)
Fancy computerized add-ons that compensate for human limits (ABS and Vehicle Traction/Stability Control) can increase safety by modulating power and brakes.

That’s it for the physics. You’ll note that there is not much in there that would allow cranking all four wheels, instead of just the front wheels, to make you any safer. And in some cases it will send you into the ditch faster than front-wheel drive.

Note the implication of this: If anyone gets an AWD vehicle “for safety” but uses it with all-season tires, they have performed a Consumer Sucka Fail. A front wheel drive vehicle with snow tires would have more grip.

According to this Consumer Reports test on snow tires vs. AWD, the tires were by far the most important factor. And only 12% of AWD vehicle owners bothered to put snow tires on their vehicle, meaning 88% of all-wheel-drive vehicle purchases were wasted, because the drivers could have achieved better performance at lower cost in a front-wheeler with snow tires.

So When IS AWD useful?

All wheel drive is a performance feature, not a safety feature. With all other things being equal, AWD lets you accelerate more quickly on slippery roads. This is usually a bad thing, because it masks the true slipperiness of the road from you, leading to overconfidence which will put you into the ditch, courtroom, or emergency room. But it is useful if you need to plow through unusually deep snow in conditions that would normally get you stuck (for example a steep snowy driveway, or if you run a snow plow). It’s also useful on extremely steep unpaved roads or in areas with no roads at all – places you are unlikely to need a car.

But Why Does Mr. Money Mustache Hate AWD so Much?

I have nothing against all wheel drive. It’s a cool bit of mechanical engineering that gives a vehicle superpowers. Whenever my son and I make a LEGO Mindstorms or VEX IQ robot, you can bet we’re going to give that sumbitch AWD or even a set of tank treads, because hey, why not?

The thing that pisses me off is that people have started using AWD for no reason on paved roads. Here we are, a society who has spent trillions of dollars building a road network so wide and glassy smooth that you can get almost anywhere in the country in all seasons even if you are driving a 73-foot tractor trailer rig, and we are still wasting money driving off-road vehicles on it.

Make no mistake: In a gas-powered vehicle, AWD requires huge sacrifice in weight and complexity. Hundreds of pounds of steel shafts, gears, lubricating oils and reinforcements are required to get the power from the engine to that extra set of drive wheels. And not only must you pay to carry that dead weight around for the life of the car, you burn even more gas fighting the extra friction of the additional gears every second the car is moving. And then you have to pay to maintain and repair all those extra moving parts. It’s like carrying all your camping gear on your back every time you leave your house. It is also akin to a man attaching a set of 13-pound Decorative Testicles below his real ones, just for show. You would do it if absolutely required for a social event, but not when you actually had to get some work done.

My Subaru Story

Back in the day, even Mr. Money Mustache slipped into the Subaru trap at one point. It was a 2004 Impreza wagon. I bought it for the impressive cargo space, but sold it just a few years later for the abysmal gas mileage. Even with a 4-cylinder engine and a manual transmission and my best attempts at hypermiling, that little machine could suck down gas at 27 MPG on the highway, meaning it consumed as much fuel as my 15-year-old city bus of a construction van does. By comparison, the 2005 Scion xA I replaced it with holds the same number of people, but has averaged about 42 MPG in its life with me. But at least those Subaru years gave me plenty of time to evaluate the effectiveness of all-wheel drive**.

What I found was just what physics would suggest: it’s all in the tires. The car came with reasonable all-season tires, which gave it fast acceleration and average stopping power in blizzards. On the other hand, I would end up Dukes of Hazzarding through slippery intersections because the rear wheels would break their traction more easily than a front-drive car. On the positive side, the car could do outrageous drifting power doughnuts in an empty ski resort parking lot – a longstanding Subaru owner tradition.

Later I upgraded to a set of Pirelli 215/45ZR17 performance tires on fancy wheels (hey, I was just a clueless lad back then), which greatly improved its handling on my area’s usually-dry roads, but turned it into an all-wheel-drive toboggan in the snow.

I vividly remember a moment in my town’s level, well-plowed Lowe’s parking lot, pulling out with a small load of lumber. It was a sunny but crisp day in January, so the snow was melting only slowly. I found myself stuck right in the pedestrian crossing in front of the store, with all four of those big alloy wheels whirring cheerfully but uselessly as they polished the packed snow and I went nowhere. It took a couple of friendly but sarcastic contractors to push me out by hand. They mocked my vehicle for not being a truck, but the real joke was the tires.

But why is my Aunt’s Subaru so much better in snow (even braking) than my Prius?

Last year my van pulled a heavy load up a grassy hill covered with 8″ of snow. Front wheel drive is more than enough.

The tires are the biggest thing, but a few other factors than can also affect traction:

A wheel and tire combo with a longer contact patch can grip the snowy road better. Larger diameter, narrower width, taller sidewall profile, softer rubber compound, and lower air pressure all contribute to this. The Subaru comes with larger, softer tires than the Prius.

A heavier vehicle can crush the snow enough to get slightly more grip in certain conditions, but this is tricky since extra weight also means more trouble changing directions. Extra weight also makes you more lethal to everyone else on the road, which would make it a pretty selfish way to try to defend yourself. If you choose to play this game, just be honest and add machine guns instead.

Higher ground clearance allows you to skim over deeper snow without scraping the car’s belly. But this is a smaller deal than you’d think. For example, the Nissan Pathfinder SUV has 6.5 inches of ground clearance, while the Toyota Prius is only an inch lower at 5.5. A road with even 5 inches of snow is insane to drive in any vehicle above about 25 MPH, so you might as well get out your mountain bike or cross country skis.

The Ultimate Solution

The first choice, of course, is to design your life so you don’t need to drive in the snow very often, or very far. I accomplished this partly by moving away from the extremely snowy area of Canada where I grew up. But you get equal effect by doing your house and job shopping with car commute avoidance in mind. A person with your level of skill is definitely entitled to work from home on snow days – your boss will agree.

Oddly enough, once I laid the ground rule of no snow commuting, the freedom from cleaning off cars and driving them in snow has been one the longest lasting bits of happiness I have ever experienced: 15 years of smiles and still going strong. Nowadays, although I argue strongly for snow tires, I don’t own any – because I just don’t bother driving on those rare days it snows in my own area.

Second best: Snow Tires on Dedicated Rims

Blizzak WS-80 - slightly pricey, but your Honda Fit will outperform Jeep Grand Cherokees with them. Highly recommended for extremely snowy areas.

Blizzak WS-80 – slightly pricey, but your Honda Fit will outperform Jeep Grand Cherokees once you outfit it with these. Highly recommended for extremely snowy areas.

This part is really easy. We now know that SUVs and AWD are not useful for those driving on paved roads. We know that summer tires and even all season tires are death traps compared to snow tires. I’m serious about this: there is a night and day difference in snow grip between all season tires (sometimes referred to by driving professionals as “no-season tires”) and good snow tires, because of the different rubber compounds and tread patterns.

But you don’t want to take your car to a mechanic twice every year and pay to have summer and winter tires swapped. This costs time and money, and damages the tires and rims. Instead, you simply get a second set of rims with snow tires permanently installed.

In the US, you just go to TireRack.com, look at their winter catalog, and pick out a set of wheels and tires that are guaranteed to fit your car. They come via UPS, and you jack up your car and swap them on one at a time, just as easy as putting on the spare. Any dedicated tire shop or Costco is also a good choice (Tire Rack will still help you get an idea what a good price on tires and wheels looks like). And as usual, the auto dealer is to be avoided – they’ll just try to sell you two thousand dollar tires and rim sets, or worse,a brand new model with AWD.

Happy Holidays, and may this set of snow tires be the last you ever need.

* If you read all this and insist on disobeying Mr. Money Mustache to your own detriment, the least ridiculous new AWD cars on the market right now are the Subaru Impreza wagon (they have improved it to 33MPG highway) and in the Large SUV category, the Subaru Forester (up to 32 hwy). Another good choice for large off-road camping families with an extreme money surplus is a 2010-ish Honda CR-V. SUVs larger than this have no rational reason to exist at all – just get a van.

** Thanks to my upbringing in Canada and various subsequent snowboarding trips around North America, I’ve also snow tested a few other all-wheelers: the Subaru Legacy/Outback, WRX wagon and Forester, Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, Toyota Tacoma and 4Runner, Audi S4 wagon, Nissan Pathfinder, Ford F-250 pickup, Chevrolet Trailblazer and Traverse, Honda CR-V and Element, and even an Eagle Talon turbo AWD. Diagnosis: It’s all in the tires.

Further reading on cars: Top 10 Cars for Smart People

Car and Driver: Snow Tires Still Beat Four Wheel Drive

Jalopnik: let’s settle the Winter Tires vs AWD debate forever, and Snow Tires: to buy or not to buy

Previous Post: If You Think This is About Extreme Frugality, You’re Missing The Point Next Post: Case Study: Average Everyday Complainypants Seeks Redemption

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Slowdown December 4, 2014, 8:33 am

Only two wheels drive – agree. Only front wheel drive: don’t agree.
Even my 1996 little not at all luxury BMW 316 i compact already hast something called “ASC + T”, which means “Automatic Stability Control + Traction”. It helps in curves on snowy and slippery streets by braking only the rear wheels when they try to overtake the front wheels . It can also brake only one wheel, when one is on slippery ground and the others aren’t. And it helps you to keep the traction when going up a hill or leaving a parking lot.
But or course I also agree on the most important fact: winter tires are absolutely required on snow and ice – not only in Germany and many other counries in middle Europe where it is legally regulated under which wheather conditions you have to use winter tires.

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David B. December 4, 2014, 9:37 am

Is there any happy medium if I have two great danes that I haul around fairly regularly? Currently in a subaru foresters (2004) that works fine, but I don’t need the AWD right now. Plan to drive the forester into the ground but could be worth trading out on craigslist for something with better gas mileage as it I drive it daily to my current job (15 miles, not something I’m willing to bike)

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Ian December 4, 2014, 12:15 pm

MMM, you are right about winter tires being more important than AWD. AWD is in no way a substitute for the proper tires. However, there are lot of strawmen in this article. Nobody is forced to choose between AWD and winter tires. Both together are an excellent and safe combination. Also, the idea that power to the rear axle is a liability is laughable. In newer AWD vehicles, getting the rear to step out, even intentionally is quite difficult.

You are mistaken, or at best operating with outdated information. AWD vehicles have come a long way. I own a 2013 Impreza that has comparable running costs and purchase price to a Corolla. Like another poster with the same car mentioned here, 40 MPG on the highway isn’t unusual.

The MPG argument no longer applies.

What additional service am I supposed to be afraid of? 1 quart of rear differential fluid every 60K miles?

There are now plenty of small, medium and large sedans and coupes, both foreign and domestic with AWD options. AWD does not necessitate buying an oversized, wasteful SUV, this isn’t 1994.

AWD belongs on the streets. The off-road vehicles that piss you off so much are typically equipped with 4WD, which is not the same. If you want to rail against oversized SUVs, go right ahead, but picking on the drivetrain is anger misplaced. There are also plenty of oversized 2WD vehicles.

AWD does improve a vehicle’s ability to maintain traction while accelerating and turning. Yes, too much power to the rear can oversteer you, however understeering can send you into a ditch or oncoming traffic just the same. A good AWD system like the Impreza’s, gently pushes the car forward from all four corners. This leaves the front tires with more available traction for steering, unlike the overworked front tires of a FWD car.

If AWD allows you to drive through places where you’d otherwise be cold, shoveling, stranded, or subject to skidding vehicles, then it absolutely is a safety feature. Just like a seat belt or airbag, you don’t need it until you do.

That being said, I have attempted to talk people out of buying SUVs “for the snow” and steered them toward winter tires instead. Most have a hard time believing rubber could make such a difference.

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Chazz December 4, 2014, 3:55 pm

MMM, while I generally agree with your overarching message here that a Civic with snow tires will work great for 90% of people, the assessment on what AWD actually brings to the table is a bit misconstrued.

First, performance features ARE safety features – people crash when their car is pushed beyond what it can handle, so in any emergency maneuver where these limits are reached, the higher this limit the higher the safety, all else being equal. This includes turning, braking and accelerating (yes, acceleration, both straight line and in a corner, where AWD shines, is a safety feature too). Whether this marginal increase in safety is warranted is another question entirely that you touched on nicely.

Second, whether or not you intended this to be your point or not, people continue to rant about how their FWD with snows is better than AWD with no seasons – well DUH! These aren’t mutually exclusive, and any sane person in the snow belt will put 4 snows on their AWD as well. This is like saying more people with Subarus crash while texting and driving than people with Hondas that are focused on the road. The Subaru with snows will corner better under load (which may mean the difference between getting stuck in oncoming traffic) than the Civic with the same snows every time.

Third, on a technical note, modern AWD systems are able to utilize engine braking much more effectively than FRW/RWD, which moustachians should appreciate because we like to coast. Subarus and Audis can maintain slow speeds on a downhill and through a turn better than a FWD car riding the brakes with less likelihood of slipping.

My very own mother has a 14 year old forester that still gets 30+ mpg on the highway. It should easily last 6-10 more years, maybe longer if she can put up with how ugly it’s becoming! She routinely hauls bikes, skis, dogs, people and gear on various trips, and regularly utilizes Subaru’s particular brand of mild off-roading. Assuming the car is worth zero in 6 years, she’s looking at $1000/year depreciation, which is pretty good in my book considering it’s capabilities. Luckily for her, AWD cars also hold their value better than FWD cars (this goes for trucks and Subarus, especially in Colorado).

So, for most people a Civic with snows is practical and safe, and in most situations AWD isn’t truly “required” so it’s not worth the additional cost. But, your good article could have been a great article :)

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JimmyDean December 4, 2014, 6:02 pm

A couple relevant paragraphs from a great book:

So people have always wanted to feel more secure than they do. Yet as Bruce Schneier’s work in the field of air security helps to demonstrate, there’s an enormous pitfall waiting for us – because the strategies that are designed to bestow a feeling of security often don’t actually leave us more secure. They may even have the opposite effect. ‘Security is both a feeling and a reality,’ as Schneier puts it, ‘and they’re not the same.’

The feeling and the reality of security diverge in specific and predictable ways. Much has been written in recent years about ‘cognitive biases’ – the ways in which our judgments about reality tend to depart from reality itself – and many of these help explain the chronic mistakes we make when it comes to security. For example, we habitually fear threats from other humans more than threats from the natural world. We fear threats that we can easily call vividly to mind more than those we find difficult to picture – the so-called availability bias. We fear situations in which we feel as though we have no control, such as flying as a passenger on an airplane, more than situations in which we feel as if we have control, such as when at the steering wheel of a car. No wonder, then, that we sometimes risk making ourselves less secure by chasing feelings of security. You’re vastly more likely to be killed as the result of a car crash than an air crash, and vastly more likely to die of heart disease than at the hands of a violent intruder. But if you react to news stories about air terrorism by taking the car when you’d otherwise have taken a plane, or if you spend time and energy protecting your home from attackers that you could have spent on improving your diet, you’ll be letting your biases guide you towards a greater feeling of security at the expense of your real safety.

The Antidote, Oliver Burkeman, pg 131-132

Dovetails nicely with many of your ideas, MMM.

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Michael December 5, 2014, 6:57 am

MMM – I’ve been reading this blog only a couple weeks (started from the very beginning, and also subscribed by email) and have really enjoyed it so far. In this article, I couldn’t help but notice the phrase “in a gas-powered vehicle”. Someday I hope to own an all-wheel-drive Tesla, which gets BETTER mileage/efficiency than the rear-wheel-drive version. But alas, I’m stuck waiting until the used price of a Tesla becomes Mustachian.

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Kayla December 5, 2014, 10:01 am

Interesting article. All this time I’ve had it wrong. I always thought AWD or 4WD would be the best thing for the snow in my midwest town. This gives me something to think about at least.

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- Trifele December 7, 2014, 5:45 am
  
  You don’t need it Kayla! We lived for 20 years in upstate New York where we averaged 125 inches of snow a year and plenty of ice. We did fall into MMM’s ‘Subaru trap’ once, but after a couple years realized it was unnecessary and sold the Forester. FWD was fine.
  
  Then a few years ago we moved back home to the midwest and I can say — for 100% sure — that no one needs AWD here. There is no sense to pay the cost and environmental penalty for an AWD vehicle when any FWD vehicle will do, if property equipped with four good snow tires and a sensible driver.
  
  Reply
TheGoyWonder December 5, 2014, 12:40 pm

There’s a $70 rebate on Hankook I*cept evo tires, and a $25 instant discount from discounttire.com. These outperform Blizzaks in Consumer Reports, especially on wet surfaces where Blizzaks supposedly suck.

My set cost under $200.

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Alex December 5, 2014, 4:10 pm

The evidence for snow tires is pretty overwhelming, but you seem to discount AWD a bit quickly. Certainly on non-slick surfaces there is little advantage, but I’m curious about the statement that acceleration isn’t very important to avoid crashes (plus I don’t see how big transport vehicles support that argument as they are also terrible at braking and turning, and seem to get by with more by cautious avoidance). Back to my question, obviously AWD doesn’t help with braking, or steering when not accelerating. However, if you are safely and slowly driving along over compact snow and need to turn *and* accelerate, say to get out of the way of say another swerving vehicle, AWD must help, or is that just too unlikely of a scenario? Is there some accident data to support the idea that turning and accelerating wouldn’t prevent a decent number of accidents?

A bit of background, we primarily drive our 33mpg Corolla, but as our second car we have opted for an older 18mpg Volvo XC90 SUV (I bike most of the time). Both for snow sports and to cross the Washington mountain passes in the winter the AWD seems useful, we barely put 2k miles per year on it if even, and most mountain trips involve passing numerous FWD cars spinning their tires (doubtlessly without snow tires). Also, I wouldn’t want to buy any cheaper of a car to replace it (worth about the $7k I’d feel safe spending on a used hatchback) and I’d be out another $1k to have a set of snow tires around, all to save maybe $200 a year in gas (or less if I tried to replace the people and stuff hauling capabilities with a wagon or van). I’ve got to admit we’ve strongly considered the idea of going to a 1 car household with a Subaru Impreza or something of the like when one of our cars ages out (and the unmistakeably anti-mustachian AWD Tesla is pretty tempting :P ). Maybe now we’ll rethink the AWD when the time comes.

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Carrie December 6, 2014, 4:52 pm

Ouch! Black eye for me. Anyone in the Philly/NYC area that can help me camouflage my Forrester so it looks like a civic or Prius? I’m going to just tape over my gas gauge so no one notices my abominable gas mileage. Thanks MMM’s I was already thinking I wanted to sell my awd SUV, now I can prove to my husband his concerns are needless and the awd isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

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littlewinger December 7, 2014, 12:08 am

Hey MMM, love your blog, been a “lurker” for a long time. Couldn’t agree with you more regarding the importance of good quality, weather-appropriate tires. Personally, I am rockin’ a payed-off, 2013 Chevy Cruze Eco 1.4L Turbo that is capable of astounding mileage (personal best w/hypermiling techiniques= 51.5mpg @ 60-65 mph) AND is a beast in the snow (Michigan). Alas, the 4×4 “douchebag-itis”affliction is alive, well and prevalent in these parts!!

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jd December 7, 2014, 7:55 am

Not a AWD, but recently I have been considering leasing a Nissan Leaf. Thought ?

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- Mr. Money Mustache December 9, 2014, 10:33 am
  
  The Nissan Leaf is fantastic!
  
  The numbers work out well if you live in an area with expensive gas and you need to do a lot of driving. Federal/state/provincial subsidies often drop the price below that of a regular car:
  http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/
  
  Reply
  - jt December 9, 2014, 10:54 am
    
    I would not advise buying a Leaf. Yes, EV efficiency is great. However, since the Leaf batteries are only air-cooled (vs the liquid-cooled ones of Tesla/Volt), they degrade at quite an alarming clip, especially if you live in a warm climate. And with limited range, they are very unsuitable for long-range trips. If you are interested in an EV, I would recommend a Chevy Volt, since you can run it on batteries for up to 35 miles for your local commutes, and then use the “old-school” Internal Combustion Engine to convey you long distances. For me, I like my Prius, since it has great efficiency with way more cargo capacity than either of them.
    
    Reply
    - Mr. Money Mustache December 9, 2014, 1:24 pm
      
      Do you have a data source for this idea of Leaf batteries degrading more quickly than competitors? I know they have instituted some warranty and discounted replacement programs just in case.
      
      I agree – Volt and Prius are perfect for a single car household that needs to do both hardcore commuting and relatively frequent country-crossing with that same car. But most households have two or more, so the Leaf is a more efficient commuter at lower cost and higher electric range than the Volt.
      
      I also encourage EV owners to consider renting a car for long trips (US car rentals are insanely cheap with unlimited mileage).
      
      But the ultimate is still a bike or an e-bike. With the right lifestyle setup, a Nissan Leaf will just sit in your driveway and depreciate like any other car. I heartily cheer on the budding EV industry, but I will probably never get a chance to participate as a customer.
      
      Reply
      - Scott December 9, 2014, 1:44 pm
        
        > I will probably never get a chance to participate as a customer.
        
        I hope you’ve at least had the experience of driving a Tesla. It really is like nothing else. One of my goals, as a car/EV enthusiast, is to one day own a Model 3. But so it doesn’t interfere with my Mustachian goals, that day likely won’t come until I’m worth $1m+ and I can pick up a used 3 for $15k or less.
        
        Reply
      - jt December 9, 2014, 3:10 pm
        
        There’s probably some more recent data, but here is the most famous study: http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/Leaf-Battery-Survey.pdf
        
        I agree that the Leaf might be an ok choice ONLY for use as a 2nd household car in a city without high temperatures =) Also note that cold temperatures decrease EV range: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089160_nissan-leaf-chevy-volt-range-loss-in-winter-new-data-from-canada
        
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Dylan Smith December 8, 2014, 7:46 am

A friend in Utah lent me his (then 16 year old) Honda Civic to go up into the mountains to ski while he was at work. He had put snow tires on this car. Where I live it hardly snows so I’m not all that accustomed to driving in snow, but I made it up the Little (or perhaps it was Big) Cottonwood Canyon with zero problems during a near blizzard. The 4×4 truck that went roaring by me at one point, I passed it one mile later as it was now irretrievably stuck in a ditch.

Whenever it snows here, the only vehicles I see on their roofs or in a ditch are 4×4 SUVs. People forget that EVERYONE has 4 wheel braking.

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Grande December 9, 2014, 7:09 am

Last year or the year before I was window shopping for an automobile. I have owned Hondas in the past. In my research I came across an interesting metric the insurance industry (maybe others) uses- A vehicle’s deaths per 100,000 vehicles. This is completely from memory so I may not be exactly correct but I am likely approximately correct.

The Honda CR-V for example has both AWD and front wheel drive options. I recall the AWD version had a much lower fatality rate per 100,000 versus the front wheel drive. 2.5 to almost 3x comes to mind. I draw no conclusions. I’m just sayin’.

That said I have read snow tires on front wheel drive are just as effective as AWD autos running all seasons. Not based on any science or anything. Just conventional wisdom of the industry.

This said I am all about dedicated snow tires/steel rims (keep salt off alloy rims!) and swapping out to summers in the warmer seasons. I ‘ll enjoy the improved handling all year round and pocket the improved fuel economy of my 4 cylinder front wheel drive over any AWD or 4WD.

Just one guy’s opinion.

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- Mr. Money Mustache December 9, 2014, 9:54 am
  
  Hey Grande.. I’d be surprised if that 2.5-3x figure were correct, because there is less than a 2x difference in safety between the most “dangerous” type of cars (compact) and the very safest (large vans). Oddly enough, midsize cars are safer than SUVs of any type in general, Minivans are THE safest among private passenger vehicles, subcompacts (also known as “normal fairly large cars” to Mustachians) score higher than compacts.
  
  Here’s the NHTSA table
  
  Reply
  - Grande December 9, 2014, 11:41 am
    
    Hi there!
    
    I did a little research and my memory was not far off. The figures may have came from The Insurance Institute for Highway safety. No idea on the credibility vs. the NHTSA government figures. I am 100% agnostic. No opinion.
    
    http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4605.pdf
    
    They measure safety of a vehicle by deaths per million vehicle years. 2007-08 2WD CRV scored 22/1M vs. 7/1M for the AWD version. Indeed a factor of 3.
    
    But….. I dug a little deeper and looked at comparables. The small SUV category is convenient as auto makers often offer 2WD and AWD versions of the same model. The RAV4 scored 34(2WD) vs 33 (AWD), Kia Sportage was 58 vs 41, and for the Hyundai Tucson the rate actually went up from 39 to 46. Looks like my CRV may have just been an outlier. Just the way the numbers shake out.
    
    That said I have same philosophy as you on this topic. Snow Tires! Snow tires over $4000 AWD options that offer more perception of safety than actual safety.
    
    Best
    
    Reply
    - Chris December 10, 2014, 9:47 am
      
      Good article – it appears to emphasise the need for all-wheel, individual corner braking – not drive. ESC is the clincher in the article, not AWD, although the only vehicles being forced to offer ESC seem to be AWD.
      
      A good article though, I printed it for future reference.
      
      Reply
    - Andrew Norris December 11, 2014, 10:59 am
      
      Agreed! great article. we would do well to read this and MMM posts on safety than to listen to the news going on about Ebola and suggesting it might spread to the USA and Europe when there was never much of a chance of that (just to get ratings). Good thing about the net is you can select your own news that will be useful to you.
      
      A point to add, not all ESC is equal. There are some very good systems and some very poor ones :-
      On ESC :-
      
      The reductions weren’t uniform across all
      of the 48 SUVs examined. Results ranged from
      a 44 percent decrease for the Toyota 4Runner
      4-door 4-wheel drive to a 5 percent increase
      for the Honda Element 4-door 2-wheel drive
      
      I.e. the Honda had more accidents WITH ESC. Not sure of the sample size but clearly there is a big difference there.
      
      Also the skill of the driver would be a big factor, even with a good ESC system.
      
      And what the report does not say is that safety conscious people will likely be attracted to 4×4. This in my view is what will make them appear safer (safer drivers have lower accident numbers). I have seen recent reports where it says vehicle mass is not so critical these days – it’s more about crumple zones. Plus if you hit a tree in a 4×4 I think you will be in more trouble, your mass will work against you. Hit another car and YOU will in theory be better off, as long as that car was smaller than yours. It’s at the expense of the other car though. But if crumple zones and air bags are more important, then it would not be so bad. I saw a crush test video of an old heavily built us car (chevy I think) compared to a new one. The old one weighed much more, and indeed LOOKED like it would hold up better. But lack of crumple zones meant the passengers and driver would have died. The new much lighter version was much better off in the same test. On narrow roads would have thought we are surely going to have more accidents in a wider car. More of an issue in Europe probably for most journeys. In the UK on the B roads there is not much room if a HGV comes the other way (e.g. mac truck to americans). I would not like to be in a wide 4×4 with less precise steering trying to move over for it.
      
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Jwelus December 9, 2014, 2:38 pm

While I’m happy with my Nissan Versa Note giving me 40+mpg daily in stop and go traffic, I still love my Subaru Outback that I’m planning to sell soon for its AWD awesomeness and comfort. In Nov 2013, I was forced to leave my family in a small city in Arkansas and move to Texas. Till they moved in June, I was driving between Texas and Arkansas every weekend adding more than 3,500 miles/month on my outback. Last winter was brutal for this area with more than 7 snow storms. Snow days are usually holidays here and none of the cities are prepared for it, and most of the drivers aren’t either. During these trips, I helped pull out cars stuck in snow on three different occasions.

I wouldn’t agree that AWD has no safety value. It’s value is definitely hyped a lot and people paying a lot for it assumes that they are getting an all terrain vehicle that can be driven in snow the same way they drive on normal roads. Most people don’t understand that driving in snow is not about moving forward, it’s about stopping when needed. AWD definitely doesn’t help you go faster, or gives you more control than using snow tires, or stop faster than other cars. But, sometimes it helps you not to get stranded.

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dave December 10, 2014, 7:34 am

Speed is a huge factor when driving in snow conditions. If you don’t slow down even with snow tires you won’t have traction.

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Chris December 10, 2014, 8:59 am

I’ve been running Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 on my civic for a few years now and they are fantastic! One of the best rated winter tires out there, albeit a bit expensive. My gripe with Blizzack is the winter tread is only half the thickness. After the winter tread wears off they become all-season tires, which seems odd to me and a waste of money.

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Chris December 10, 2014, 9:31 am

I challenge anyone on here to think of the most dangerous spot you drive. Now call your local engineering or traffic department and ask what weather conditions the most collisions happen in at that spot.

Tip: It’s going to be the following: clear, dry, sunny. Here it is for the entire province of Ontario: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/orsar/orsar11/ontario-road-safety-annual-report-2011.pdf (See page 49/51)

OK, so this is purely a frequency based conclusion, right, its severity we should worry about. I mean I’m not worried about fender benders, I’m worried about hospital visits… In Ontario in 2011, twenty three out of 466 fatal crashes were in snowy conditions. (64 if you include rain, snow, freezing rain, etc.)

More sentient is the fact that the most common way to die in a car is to be in a ‘single vehicle run off road’ collision (230 of the 466 crashes). The most common cause of this? Too fast for conditions or driver distraction. One of which certainly is promoted by all-wheel drive. I would argue that AWD is more dangerous than the alternatives, both for yourself, and the other drivers.

One of these crashes in my area was a BMW X-drive that spun into a guiderail backwards during a freezing rain event, resulting in what the attending officer described as a ‘hangman’s whip fracture’ when the driver’s head was jerked back into a poorly adjusted headrest. Speed was a likely factor. It was a nice new car, driven by a young woman who died needlessly.

AWD has nothing to offer in terms of road safety.

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- dave December 10, 2014, 11:46 am
  
  “Too fast for conditions or driver distraction”. Exaclty!!!!! And AWD seems to instill a false sense in people that they can actually maintain normal speed in poor weather in these vehicles.
  
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- Andrew Norris December 11, 2014, 7:37 pm
  
  Although I am with MMM on most of this, it does seem from another post on here, that AWD is getting a lot safer to ESC systems stopping them rolling. http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4605.pdf not all models though.
  
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dave December 10, 2014, 10:52 am

Will oil prices falling I predict a huge sales increase in SUV’s and larger trucks in the USA not so much Canada.

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- Andrew Norris December 11, 2014, 7:46 pm
  
  Would not surprise me. Most of the people of the USA spend, spend, spend. It’s one thing having a “successful” economy, but if that is gained through having made all the people high materialistic – then that is not true success. They work hard for things they don’t really need. They spend less time with their family. The best economies have achieved some wealth but without having a revved up overly materialistic (and none the wiser for it) population.
  
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Alex December 11, 2014, 4:53 pm

Don’t know why this questions didn’t make it through the first time… Anyhow, just wondering why the ability to accelerate is so discounted in the safety physics equation. I’m with you on turning and braking, no difference with FWD. But AWD allows your to accelerate (and therefore accelerate and turn together), is that really not likely enough to prevent any accidents? It must help you get out of the way of an oncoming vehicle, which is more likely in slippery conditions. Obviously shouldn’t use AWD as an excuse to drive more dangerously, but it seems evident there are at least reasonably conceivable scenarios where AWD would make you safer. Heck, there have even been times I’m slowly driving along a busy and heavily snowed pass in my AWD and a FWD car is slowly sliding sideways and back towards me as their tires spin, requiring me to steer around them. I’m probably just taking it too literally, and your point was that the excessive cost of AWD isn’t worth the very low odds of needing it to avoid someone crashing into you :P

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- Andrew Norris December 11, 2014, 7:42 pm
  
  It’s all about winter tyres. Highly likely the FWD in front of you did not have them. In worse conditions you yourself could be passed by a FWD if you don’t have winter tyres. As many FWD winter tyre people have commented on in here, they often go past AWD.
  
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Mary December 12, 2014, 7:45 am

A while back I was addicted to watching the show Ice Road Truckers. At one point one of the drivers said tires are what keep you on the road. I live in an area where we get snow a few times a year, but also ice a few times a year (much worse IMO – I don’t like not being able to get moving, but not being able to stop is Right Out). So I went out and bought some GoodYear TripleTred tires. I know they reduce gas mileage somewhat, but I am generally not driving very much, and when I do drive, it tends to be for things like taking a cat to the vet. At which point I kind of need to really know I can trust my car.

Anyway, fast forward a year or two after that and my wife and I car pooled to work one day (don’t even remember why – I usually take the train, but I digress). It so happened, this was the day of the Mighty Snow/Ice Storm That Crippled Washington DC. There were people in their cars literally overnight stuck in the traffic from lots and lots of accidents. There are three reasons we had no trouble:

1. I didn’t drive fast (duh, but you’d be surprised how stupid people can be in their cars..or maybe you wouldn’t).
2. We don’t live so far from work that we already have a 1+hour communte to start with.
3. We had tires with more grip than regular tires. I think there was only once I even felt the car trying to skid at all during the whole trip.

Anyway, wanted to mention tires with multiple personalities as a possible option for people in areas with similar weather patterns.

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Marissa December 15, 2014, 7:25 pm

Do snow tires or winter tires improve gas mileage over performance/summer tires during the winter months? Or is safety the only benefit?

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BostonBeard December 16, 2014, 10:45 am

…further support for MMM’s position here, and from Jalopnik no less:

http://jalopnik.com/heres-irrefutable-proof-that-all-wheel-drive-is-worthle-1671708207

I had to forward this article to my mom, who was considering buying a new CR-V because she was concerned about her FWD Camry in the NH snow and wanted the AWD. Crisis averted!

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maury December 16, 2014, 10:56 am

my ’97 corolla (NC flood car -paid cash at 6 months new) has been a brand new driving experience with cheap snow tires!!!!!!! I now live in Minnesota and last winter’s 70″ of snow was terrifying: Without snow tires. I will drive with snow tires forever. Old lug drives and handles better with them . Thought about buying a new (used) car but some years I spend $200 on maintenance and some $0. Looks like hell but does the basics. This little sucker wont quit! I’m through driving coast to coast and with 32-36 mph, I cant make myself give it up. As far as I’m concerned: it aint used up yet.

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PeterK2003 December 16, 2014, 1:37 pm

I have Dunlop DS-3(I think) on my Scion tC. Does great in the snow as long as it stays less then about 4 inches(I am bottomed out at this point and lose traction). I regularly pass stuck trucks and SUVs. It does require a lot of spinning to get up steep un-plowed hills but I make it. Also you can get 8-ft lumber in it if you put the front seat down.

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Erin December 23, 2014, 5:40 pm

What if one still lives in Canada? Northern Ontario, on highway 11, worst highway in the western world. Highway that all the transport trucks take to cross the country? Where someone you know, or know of, gets killed at least once a month? What then? I do not drive on the highway when the weather is bad. When my school board transferred me to a school in a different town I moved to that town after 2 years of frightful driving. Unfortunately my house didn’t sell for a few years after that but at least I’m still alive. I often wish I had a RAV or something like that but I downsized to a Corolla a year ago, largely due to reading this blog.

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Mike December 23, 2014, 10:48 pm

I live in the Utah mountains and drive a Honda Civic with snow tires in winter, not uncommonly on 3-6″ of snow that hasn’t been plowed on curvy mountain roads…I’ll take it over four-wheel drive without snow tires on any paved road.

However, I think the average American plans for the worst case scenario – a car accident – that can have nothing to do with snow. A big, tall vehicle a) puts you higher than the average vehicle so in a t-bone you are statistically less likely to have life-threatening injuries (LTI): car x car = LTI, SUV x SUV = LTI, car x SUV = non-LTI for one of you) and b) puts more weight behind you for the impact, i.e. physics.

I have no doubt that the average American doesn’t think any farther than “I’ll be safer” and doesn’t care about the ‘arms race’ they’re participating in, the easiest way to minimize risk (drive less), the other risky things in their lives (guns, heart-disease, smoking), etc…but it’s the world we live in.

We throw a lot of money and/or poor human decency at low risk events because of fear over logic (terrorism and ebola come to mind), but it’s hard to change humanity.

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Barnacle Bill December 24, 2014, 12:11 pm

I’m not buying it. After all, MMM claims the physics of cars dictate:
– How effectively the car lets you change direction or speed (cars with a lower center of gravity and stiffer suspension are safer).
Presumably, there will be times when three of four wheels are on slippery surfaces, and one wheel is not, and applying power to this wheel rather than simply coasting will help keep the car in control. This is what AWD is for.
What *is* completely, utterly useless is 4WD. As an ex-owner of a Jeep (and being in the 0.01% of 4WD owners who actually drove off-road regularly), I recognize that for typical winter road conditions, 4WD doesn’t actually do anything, since you can’t keep the vehicle in 4WD mode on dry roads (or you slowly destroy your drive train). You need to be psychic to predict when the road will be sufficiently slippery, and switch into 4WD in advance. A few vehicles advertise full-time 4WD, which is essentially the same as AWD, and not useless, but the vast majority of SUVs, crossovers, etc. are still using 1940s Jeep Willlys vintage 4WD.
Furthermore, there are now AWD cars available with decent fuel economy. You can get an all-electric RAV4, and the new Crosstrek gets 31MPG combined. I know, true Mustachians don’t buy new cars…but 1- or 2-year-old car with 20k miles can be a sweet deal, so bide your time. And AWD isn’t as gas guzzling as it used to be. Just because Subaru was lazy about efficiency and the only producer of non-SUV/pickup AWD doesn’t mean it can’t be done right. The Fusion AWD gets 22/31MPG; the Fusion FWD (same engine) gets 22/33. So you will consume an extra 18 gallons (at 12k miles) per year. I hear you, all Mustachians should drive beater Corollas. But if you want to indulge in AWD and do it right, it’s not going to break your early retirement.

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space December 25, 2014, 12:01 pm

IMO, the obsession with AWD is mostly because until somewhat recently, it’s been somewhat correlated to the presence of 2 other features that actually does help you maintain control over slippery roads – ESC (electronic stability control), and traction control. Most compacts made prior to 2012 will likely not have ESC, while most AWD vehicles most likely will. Your average 2WD vehicle also likely doesn’t have traction control, but AWD vehicles generally will, since it more or less has to be programmed into its systems anyways (note: AWD, not 4WD. An AWD system is automatic and always on, while a 4WD system is generally manual, meaning that the system doesn’t automatically determine whether 4WD is appropriate for a certain situation),

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Katie January 11, 2015, 3:08 pm

Even though your article made sense , I don’t foresee us getting rid of our awd vehicle anytime soon. We live on a dairy farm in a very rural area of east michigan and regularly get dumped on by lake effect snow. Many days on my way to work I have to buck huge drifts in order to get down the road, as the road commission just can’t keep up! Just yesterday we went to a farm meeting in a town 20 minutes away and even though it didn’t snow, I had to gun it and almost got stuck trying to pick up my daughter from the babysitters after the snow blew through all the fields and covered their driveway with a few piles of snow round the top of my bumper after just three hours. It would be nice to save the money, but in our area it truly is a necessity! Definitely will be investing in snow tires next year, since my tires are basically new and grip the road great right now !

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- Mr. Money Mustache January 12, 2015, 11:06 am
  
  Snow tires are a great idea in Michigan, but you’ve already proven that you don’t need AWD: a front wheel drive car with burly snow tires will usually outperform an SUV with all seasons. Of course AWD + snow tires is the ultimate for plowing through deep drifts, and in your situation it might be worthwhile – as long as you don’t have to use more gas for the REST of the year just to get through those few drifts in the depths of winter.
  
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Bri January 11, 2015, 8:01 pm

Hello from Minnesnowta! I live in the suburbs near North Minneapolis and drive a Prius. Not a snow-loving car, for sure, but with patience it handles fine. Just go slow, brake early and slowly, and don’t overcompensate when slippage occurs. I’ve driven AWD, and FWD, and never once been stuck in a ditch or slid into anything. My mom, who insisted she needed an AWD compact SUV has been in ditches more times than I can count (a little break-happy). Most slide-outs are totally avoidable with cautious driving =)

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Leanne February 5, 2015, 1:15 am

My anecdotal (and therefore unscientific and potentially worthless) experience has been a little to the contrary. Most of the vehicles that I’ve driven have been 4wd or awd, and I’ve found that it actually makes a significant difference in handling (my current ride – a subcompact hatchback – has optional awd. As in, I can turn it on or off with the push of a button. That saves me a little bit of gas when it’s in fwd mode, but if I forget to turn it back on when the roads are bad I definitely notice the difference. Not as much of a difference as driving a 4×4 vs. rwd pick-up, but still a difference). Is it *more* of a difference than snow tires make? No. But living in Alaska where the roads are crap most of the time, even a little difference can mean a lot over the long run, and in my experience you’re best off with having both snow tires *and* awd.

There have been a few situations where it’s been really noticeable – like when we had a pretty decent snow dump over the course of a work day last year, and a bunch of folks in my office had to go outside to help push all of the 2wd cars out of the parking lot, while absolutely none of the awd or 4wd vehicles had any problems with getting stuck. And there have also been plenty of times when I’ve needed to get to somewhere before the snow plows have been able to do their jobs, and awd has made the difference between going or getting stuck in my parking lot or driveway and having to wait until the roads got cleared. Arguably, that means that I’m probably driving in conditions where it would be a better idea to stay home, but using the weather as an excuse to not go places (especially work) isn’t really a luxury we have here. Even my mom, who is retired, after driving a fwd car for a few years for budget reasons, is now anxiously looking forward to when she’ll have enough saved up for a new-to-her awd model. Is it impossible to live with a fwd car in Alaska? No, not at all – especially if you use studded tires in winter, and live in an urban area where the roads are relatively well maintained. It is a little riskier though, and for me I appreciate the better handling too much to be willing to do without.

That said, I still went with one of the least expensive and most fuel efficient options I could find, and especially looked for a vehicle with awd that I can turn *off* when I don’t need it (unlike a subaru, which is awd all the time). I paid quite a bit more for the car than I would have for a fwd hatchback of the same size, and obviously I pay more at the pump… but hopefully some of that will be offset now that I’m moving much closer to work and can hopefully switch to biking most of the time. Of course, even biking can be more expensive in Alaska if you go with the fat tire option. Seems like we’re just destined to pay a premium price for transportation up here. Still, I think it’s worth it :)

And there’s still no reason to drive a 4×4 Suburban at 90 miles an hour through a snow storm, unless you’re *aiming* to provide entertainment for the rest of us when we later pass your stupid ass when you land upside down in the ditch.

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Eric February 12, 2015, 1:15 pm

When I was at the end of my college career I was driving an extended bed rear wheel drive 1998 S-10 4 cylinder. I commuted to school about an hour and a half each way and after an extremely snowy winter I was convinced I needed to ditch the truck and get a 4 wheel drive.

I tried but couldn’t come up with the money and didn’t want a payment so I tried snow tires instead. After I got them installed my world was changed! I went from loading the bed of my truck up with sandbags for 4 months out of the year to keep traction in light snow to braving two feet of snow on the roads.

I have to agree that snow tires are a much better alternative to 4 wheel drive it was nice to hear this from a previous Subaru owner!

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Justin February 17, 2015, 11:49 am

As an engineer, I appreciate the sensibility MMM brings to this piece. Every car has AWS (all wheel stop) and FWS (front wheel steering). Aside from accelerating traction, AWD can help with steering traction, in some rare conditions. (hint: google “circle of traction”).

I recently paid cash for my first AWD vehicle (an 07 with 100k on it), not because it is AWD, but because it was nice enough and from a very reliable brand. Fuel economy for me is not much of a factor because I don’t have a long commute and if it gets 5k miles a year, I’ll be surprised. Very un-mustachian, but I’m not sweating $5 a month in fuel. I can easily make that up in driving style (a good drive in AWD beats a bad one with 2wd) and less driving.

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Melinda February 17, 2015, 12:18 pm

What do you recommend for those of us who live where winters get snow that doesn’t last? We get a couple inches of snow maybe 4-8 times per winter. It lasts a week or less before the temps warm up enough to melt, which means that MOST of the time there is not snow. BUT when there is even an inch of snow, my Honda Odyssey (no judgement, please, I have 5 children :) ) slips and slides around like a maniac. No matter how slowly and carefully I drive, it is terrifying, yet it wouldn’t make sense to use snow tires all winter and would be terribly inconvenient to switch them out for all season tires every few weeks all winter long. Suggestions?

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- Mr. Money Mustache February 19, 2015, 7:37 pm
  
  That’s similar to my climate. The answer is easy – just throw the snow tires on at the beginning of the possible snow season, and take them off at the end. You’ll be much safer than someone with AWD, and this solution is much less expensive as well.
  
  By the way, your Odyssey probably has below-average tires for winter. I have the same van, and it is a Beast in snow, even with all-season tires. Yours may be less grippy than mine, but still great for the other three seasons. So keep them, and get a second set of wheels with snow tires from TireRack. Problem solved!
  
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David February 24, 2015, 6:10 pm

Snow tires on dedicated rims are the way to go for winter, but don’t go to tire rack.com. Go to a local salvage yard and buy used rims. With good snow tires even rear wheel drive is not a problem. I get to work at a ski resort every day in a rear wheel drive truck. About 10 miles of my commute is covered with snow most days. My other truck has 4WD because my summer work has me driving off road several days each week. Except for plowing my own driveway that truck seldom sees snow. FWDand 4WD are nice in snow but not necessary.

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Laura February 27, 2015, 9:42 am

I’ve been reading six MMM articles a day (in my super valuable free time) since I found the blog, and I’m loving it. Still not sure how I will manage to implement some of this stuff in my own life, but everything has been incredibly sensible and sometimes even brilliant. So I was shocked to see an article where MMM and I disagreed so much.

My AWD vehicle is my best friend and confidant. It made me decide not to jump off a cliff rather than try to survive another Chicago winter. But when I read the article, I discovered why we disagree: MMM is talking about DRIVING an AWD vehicle. This is nice and I have no complaints about it, but I did not buy a gigantic gas-guzzling AWD SUV to DRIVE it. No. I bought it to PARK it.

Here in Hyde Park, the streets do not get plowed. Or rather, they usually do not get plowed, and if they do, then you are even sadder, because all the snow has been plowed onto and over your car. My previous car (yes, I admit – it was a Prius) was powerless in the face of these conditions. Literally. The wheels slipped so much that the car’s super-intelligent computer brain cut power to them.

It was impossible to get out of a parking spot in the Prius, which is just as well, because once you were out you would have no way to get back into one, either. Digging yourself out at the expense of two hours of hideous painful labor might be a Mustachian thing to do, but then when you were done with whatever your errand was, you would be faced with the task of digging out another parking spot – if you could even find one that had been vacated by another car – because somebody would have stolen the one you dug out before. With two often screaming small children in the car and a load of groceries to get into the apartment, I declined this opportunity to exercise.

The gigantic gas-guzzling AWD SUV crushes snowdrifts. And is that because it has AWD? Not entirely. But the AWD allows it to grip the ground even when the front wheels are parked on a patch of ice, which is often around these parts. It made my life worth living again. Should I live somewhere where I don’t need a car instead, so that I avoid this problem entirely? Alas, I already do – it’s just that when the sidewalks are covered in two feet of snow, it’s very difficult to push a stroller of two screaming children through them.

My AWD vehicle is probably not Mustachian. I am ready to acknowledge this. But it is a convenience that I will admit I want to pay for.

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Scott March 13, 2015, 1:58 pm

Thanks for making me feel better about trading my Impreza for a Fit but I still regret it every time the snow flies here in Ohio. I guess I will invest in some steelies and snow tires and she how the lil Fit does next winter.

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John March 27, 2015, 1:22 pm

I basically agree with your points. As a winter driver with more than 40 years of experience, mostly in upstate New York, the #1 factor is the driver. A good driver will be far safer in any vehicle than a bad driver with AWD. Up here we often joke that the first sign of winter is when you see the 4WDs and AWDs in the ditch, and it is a surefire indication it is time to slow down when you see one like that. Due to lack of funds I have driven many “unsuitable” winter cars, including rear-wheel drive numbers. In certain conditions they are superior. At high speed on roads that are slick or becoming icy you can deal with a bit of rear wheel slippage, but if excess throttle breaks loose your front wheels–the steering wheels–you can be in a heap of trouble fast. I have been cruising right along safely in a Crown Vic when an AWD Subaru just went into a wild, completely out of control spin in front of me on a straight stretch of highway, indicating the road had become dramatically slippery. Luckily, the Subaru ended up safely in deep snow off the highway while my RWD sedan sailed right on with no issues, though of course I was slowing down by easing off on the throttle. The very act of easing off on the throttle can put too much drag onto the steering wheels of FWD cars sometimes, causing steering issues on slippery surfaces. In any case, my main point is that safe winter driving is a result of a skilled driver using his/her tools appropriately for the conditions.

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Getting There September 10, 2015, 7:52 pm

It’s been two months but I’m nearly through the old stuff. Funny this would be the article that compels me to comment for the first time but I’ll provide a funny example of the winter tire phenomenon:

My wife’s parents own a few vehicles, among them a 2005 GMC Yukon XL (I’m slowly working on them on this…to be fair there are 9 in the family and it has been used to haul some serious stuff) and a 2007 Prius. In the winter, my father in law puts winter tires on the Prius but not the Yukon, they also live on a hill. Can you guess which one gets up and down the hill every time? On top of that, I took the Prius to work up unplowed rural roads during a snowstorm that dropped 10 inches, marveling at all the four wheel drive vehicles stuck spinning their tires.

Snow tires are awesome. Also, if anyone finds themselves reading this, I highly recommend the services of Tire Rack and suggest you go with the General Altmax Arctic. For the price, it’s worth the sacrifice of road noise and comfort while driving.

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Jerbear December 15, 2015, 9:17 am

Man… reading the last third of your post was just painful, because I realized I have a jacked up Toyota Tacoma with off-road tires and I live in Nashville… Tennessee… where we’re lucky to see an inch of snow a year.

And here you are describing the best way to tackle all this snow that I just don’t see.

It’s gotta go :|

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- David December 15, 2015, 7:47 pm
  
  Off road tires aren’t that great in snow. They are better than highway or all season tires but they don’t compare to real snow tires. Since you don’t drive in snow it doesn’t really matter.
  
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Victor June 19, 2016, 6:54 am

Anyone driving in snow without snow tires is an idiot. There is just no excuse for that.

I agree with MMM on the limits of AWD. However, having AWD with winter tires can get you out of some really tough situations here in rural Canada. If I spent most of my driving in the city where snow gets plowed more often than in the middle of nowhere, FWD may be sufficient.

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Don July 24, 2016, 9:48 pm

I have been a race car driver and performance driving school instructor for over 30 years. After years of teaching car control skills to students on frozen lakes in Canada I agree with MMM about AWD in his article. Here are my observations:
– If you drive on snow and ice get four good winter tires. If you see ice frequently get them studded if you can. Replace all four after 5 years or when the tread depth is less than half. Don’t use your winter tires in summer.
– AWD makes it more difficult to feel the tires breaking traction. Which leads to overconfidence then loss of control with less warning than 2WD. Also AWD vehicles tend to be heavier, and the extra inertia makes them harder to stop or turn. Most vehicles that I see upside down in a ditch beside the highway in winter are AWD. Hmmmm.
– Don’t assume you can control your car in a skid on ice. 99% of my students can’t at the beginning of the course. This takes training and practice before you can do it automatically in an emergency situation. Two most important lessons (for free): #1 look way ahead so you don’t need to react with sudden inputs. #2 don’t make sudden inputs (turn steering wheel slowly and smoothly, on and off gas slowly and smoothly). #3(bonus lesson) brake in a straight line not when you are already turning (another reason to look well ahead and plan where you will brake).
There. Now you don’t need AWD anymore. Class dismissed.
Oh, someone at the back of the room says he needs his AWD for “performance”. When performance is decided by who gets to the checkered flag first my racing experience says that driving skill, light weight, and good tires are the most important factors when racing on ice, or even on a rainy racetrack.

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matt campbell July 27, 2016, 9:13 pm

I bought a 1983 subaru leone wagon about 3 years ago for 300 bucks. Ran like a champ , had to put new tires on it. gas millage sucked. Had High and Low old school 4 wheel drive. The thing would climb a tree. But I just bought 9 months ago a 1992 honda civic hatchback…did my research and decided this was the car to get , finally found one with 105,000 miles on it, and got it for $1000 bucks. It gets 43 miles to the gallon, super easy to work on and parts are cheap. It also came with a set of Snow tires for the front. I live in wyoming near yellowstone, and it goes through and up about anything I need it to. thats my story

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David August 15, 2016, 5:43 am

Over the course of 40 years of driving in snow country I have had rear wheel drive, front wheel drive and four wheel drive. One winter in the early 1980s I tried all season tires. By the middle of January I replaced them with real snow tires and never tried all season tires again. The biggest advantage of 4WD is going uphill in deep snow. This happens mostly in my own driveway so the real difference is parking next to the house or walking 60 feet up the driveway.
One of my “retirement” businesses is caretaking for second homes. That includes plowing their driveways so I have a one ton pickup with a snowplow blade. It only gets 9 MPG but it is a special purpose truck that is only used when it is earning money doing work that can not be done by a minivan.

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Carfan August 21, 2016, 10:32 pm

The awd in a subaru adds about 149lbs over a two wheeled version. The mileage issue Subaru had was due to using 20yr old engine design. The new cars are far better but they are no hybrid or plugin. Our Fusion Energy typically does 80mpg in the summers and 65-70mpg in the winters as long as its been charged at both ends of the commute. The 2.5 cvt Subaru does solid 28-32mpg on road trips vs our old Subaru never cracked 28mpg. But we get 21mpg towing our camping rig with the subaru. Far better than 15mpg with our 8pass truck.

Nothing wrong owning a AWD car. Saftey is a different subject. Just staying home when weather conditions are bad changes the whole argument.

AWD is great on slick boat ramps, dirt roads to remote camp sites. Getting out of snowed in parking lots etc. Nothing wrong with that.

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Brian September 13, 2016, 3:04 pm

Where can I get a good deal on said machine guns? :)

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Karl B. January 30, 2017, 10:42 am

This just came up on my facebook feed….

Recently my wife, with her AWD Ford Fusion, just lost control in our driveway and slid into a rock wall. She admits she was going too fast and we are lucky that she only damaged a rim and tire. Meanwhile, on the same morning, I had no problem driving down the same driveway with my Ford Focus because I knew the driveway was slippery and I drove at a reasonable speed.

Her next car will not be AWD, because the main expenses with her car has been with the AWD (driveshaft and transfer case or PTU as they call it). But, her car has 315,000 miles and it is still going…

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Laurence January 30, 2017, 11:17 am

Agree that winter tires are a good idea! However, if you are concerned with minimizing the death rate category, 4WD in SUVs appears to be worth it based on recent data from IIHS. The table in the link below shows that driver death rates are about double in 2WD SUVs vs 4WD SUVs – http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/50/1/1

May be a function of weight – the extra 300+ pounds of metal that goes into those systems?
Or it might be the extra traction from 4WD does work?
Oddly for pickups the impact of 4WD isn’t much.

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- Mr. Money Mustache January 31, 2017, 10:43 am
  
  Thanks Laurence – using the iihs data is a great idea when trying to figure out which vehicles are safer.
  
  However, I would hesitate to assume that it is the 4WD that is increasing the safety in that category, because the mix of vehicles might be significantly different. (For example, some models might only come with 4WD, while others have both drive options). Or maybe the data set is too small (note the suspicious ZERO death rate for small sports cars?)
  
  Reply
Mountain Momma January 30, 2017, 11:28 am

I am so glad I read this! But I have a question about what is being advised… Is MMM saying we should have two sets of rims and tires and switch them or is it okay to have snow tires on all year round? If snow tires all year round, what is the reason for having the extra set of rims? If we are to switch them twice a year… do we not need to get the car aligned and balanced after doing so? I think that’s what my hesitation is… I’m considering just popping the snow tires on for all year. Would appreciate clarity on this. (I tend to overthink things)

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- Mr. Money Mustache January 31, 2017, 10:37 am
  
  No, I would definitely use all-season tires for the majority of the year, and just run the snow tires when necessary, whatever your snow season is.
  
  Snow tires are a bit noiser, less fuel-efficient and will wear out more quickly. If you drive on a daily or near-daily basis, it probably pays to have two separate sets of tires on dedicated rims.
  
  Reply
  - Jack January 31, 2017, 6:48 pm
    
    Ah, but not necessarily. Snow tires start life with significantly more tread. Yes….they wear down quicker but there’s more to wear so they don’t wear out faster than all season tires. I’ve run several cars year round on snows and tend to get over 70k miles on a set.
    
    I will completely agree that they’re noisier and may reduce mileage a tiny bit. They don’t handle as well as regular tires but upping the pressure helps this.
    
    I do agree also that winter tires should be the first thing to get to get through winters.
    
    Reply

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